ebassist dot com  ebassist dot com...
 
 

Go Back   ebassist dot com > stuff... > the ebassist pub

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-19-2015, 02:28 PM   #1
J the D
Bozo
 
J the D's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SW FL
Posts: 5,081
End of Affordable Care Act?

United Health, the largest health insurer in the United States, announced today that they were, "evaluating the viability of the insurance exchange product segment" and "will determine in the first half of 2016 to what extent it can continue to serve the public exchange markets in 2017."

They go on to say the losses they are experiencing are not sustainable and expect a reduction in earnings for the fourth quarter of $425 million "driven by 2015 and 2016 exchange product pressure."

Will capitalism kill the ACA where politics couldn't? If United leaves the insurance exchange market all their competitors will follow and the entire house of cards collapses no matter what Obama or the Congress do. The article says that even United talking about withdrawing will scare some of the smaller players out of the market.

Discuss.
__________________
WINNER: Winner for oldest instrument named. 7/2/13
J the D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2015, 02:31 PM   #2
collinwho
Lord, beer me strength.
 
collinwho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 4,899
Anything to force a single payer system through as soon as possible is good to me.
__________________
Quote:
Eve Hell said... View Post
You I would date. You seem fun.
Quote:
Sugarskull said... View Post
Marry me.
Likes: (8)
collinwho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2015, 02:31 PM   #3
Croissant Seven
Actually George Soros
 
Croissant Seven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: George Sorosland
Posts: 20,539
Quote:
J the D said... View Post

Will capitalism kill the ACA where politics couldn't?
Discuss.
Would it surprise you that an extremely wealthy company, whose entire business model is based upon holding everyone involved at gunpoint, would be the leader in killing something designed to help poor people not get held at gunpoint?
__________________
Yoga Fire Photo

My YouTube Channel


Standards: Better when low. - BottomHeavyKate

"Whack shitter closet" is a phrase that needs to go somewhere. - ec437
Likes: (4)
Croissant Seven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2015, 02:33 PM   #4
Jugghaid
Buildiing green economies
 
Jugghaid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: I'm a mile high........
Posts: 35,561
Inevitable in its current format. It is a lot of good ideas packaged up in a terrible piece of legislation. this is yet another lesson for DC insiders in the law of unintended consequences.

I wonder if the government will try and force United to not withdraw.
__________________
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”
-Mark Twain

“Remember to always be yourself. Unless you suck.”
-Joss Whedon

"Our Dark Lord has some tasty spunk, yo."
-C7

www.corezero.rocks
Likes: (1)
Jugghaid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2015, 02:36 PM   #5
p1gg1e
Senior Member
 
p1gg1e's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 25,463
Meh so what, 20 years from now we will change over... gotta rob us all blind a little longer...
__________________
~Winner of the "Grace Under Pressure" award so by Lug, Jan. 2011
Quote:
Pig's bringin knitting back... yeah... you crocheters don't know how to act... yeah... you best quit stitchin 'for she hook your back... yeah... a knit codpiece that just won't fit your sack... yeah
Quote:
Samson said... View Post
Like a sunset, or honeydew mellon, or a 3rd nipple.
Quote:
King Kashue said... View Post
She's right
Quote:
catphish said... View Post
Sorry piggie. You were right.
Quote:
Kindness said... View Post
I think you're right.
p1gg1e is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2015, 02:54 PM   #6
J the D
Bozo
 
J the D's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SW FL
Posts: 5,081
Quote:
Jugghaid said... View Post
Inevitable in its current format. It is a lot of good ideas packaged up in a terrible piece of legislation. this is yet another lesson for DC insiders in the law of unintended consequences.

I wonder if the government will try and force United to not withdraw.
Great idea that got totally screwed in the execution by Pelosi and friends. Nothing good comes from cramming such a monumental change in our society down everyone's throats. Unfortunately, the Dems may have destroyed any chance of anything in the future with their power play. The poor will be worse off than they were before ACA.

Forcing United to stay in the exchanges would require legislation. Not likely to pass (or even get to the floor) in this Congress.
J the D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2015, 02:57 PM   #7
Seethroughsouls
BHMCC
 
Seethroughsouls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Raider Nation
Posts: 18,710
ACA is a bad idea period. It is useless and unnecessary but a good way to keep the teams separate. Poor think it's helping them and rich think they're getting fucked......a win win for the ruling class. Hulk Hogan will let Andre the Giant win this next match and all will be right again.......for one team.
__________________
Drop Squad on Facebook

Quote:
Try heaven for the scenery and hell for the company
Work hard today! Millions on welfare are counting on you.
Likes: (1)
Seethroughsouls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2015, 02:59 PM   #8
Croissant Seven
Actually George Soros
 
Croissant Seven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: George Sorosland
Posts: 20,539
Quote:
J the D said... View Post
The poor will be worse off than they were before ACA.
Who gets the blame for this?
Croissant Seven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2015, 03:02 PM   #9
J the D
Bozo
 
J the D's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SW FL
Posts: 5,081
Quote:
Croissant Seven said... View Post
Who gets the blame for this?
Absolutely no question. Pelosi and Obama. They are the ones who pushed ACA through without bipartisan support. What few support mechanisms that were in place for the poor have been removed to provide for the exchanges and will be much harder to put back.
J the D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2015, 03:10 PM   #10
ec437
Senior Virtue Signaler
 
ec437's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 21,855
Quote:
J the D said... View Post
Absolutely no question. Pelosi and Obama. They are the ones who pushed ACA through without bipartisan support. What few support mechanisms that were in place for the poor have been removed to provide for the exchanges and will be much harder to put back.
What support mechanisms did the ACA remove? The ACA made it possible for me to receive significant financial assistance for my health insurance while in school with no income.
Likes: (3)
ec437 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2015, 03:12 PM   #11
Croissant Seven
Actually George Soros
 
Croissant Seven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: George Sorosland
Posts: 20,539
Quote:
J the D said... View Post
Absolutely no question. Pelosi and Obama. They are the ones who pushed ACA through without bipartisan support. What few support mechanisms that were in place for the poor have been removed to provide for the exchanges and will be much harder to put back.
No, I meant who is ultimately responsible for poor people being worse off today than they were, say, before the government made the insurance companies' products mandatory?
Croissant Seven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2015, 03:14 PM   #12
rowka
Emotionally Unavailable
 
rowka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,753
Poor people, of course.
Boot straps and what not...
__________________
Ivy League

Live like a windrammer as you fuck!
AARG! I'm being crushed by an unkowable crab apple!
Holy shit Karl....

Quote:
bassesofalessergod said... View Post
Quote:
bassesofalessergod said... View Post
i'll buy you all the wood you want for a tele bass...

tell me ho wmuch!
best. post. ever.
Likes: (1)
rowka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2015, 03:16 PM   #13
Croissant Seven
Actually George Soros
 
Croissant Seven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: George Sorosland
Posts: 20,539
Quote:
rowka said... View Post
Poor people, of course.
Boot straps and what not...
Correct. It is the fault of the people who have the least amount of power.
Croissant Seven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2015, 03:18 PM   #14
J the D
Bozo
 
J the D's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SW FL
Posts: 5,081
Quote:
Croissant Seven said... View Post
No, I meant who is ultimately responsible for poor people being worse off today than they were, say, before the government made the insurance companies' products mandatory?
The people that facilitated the removal of whatever support mechanism was in place before they forced ACA upon us.
J the D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2015, 03:19 PM   #15
Croissant Seven
Actually George Soros
 
Croissant Seven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: George Sorosland
Posts: 20,539
Quote:
J the D said... View Post
The people that facilitated the removal of whatever support mechanism was in place before they forced ACA upon us.
Please tell us what support mechanism was removed.
Likes: (1)
Croissant Seven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2015, 03:21 PM   #16
ThudMaker
Still From the Block
 
ThudMaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Between
Posts: 18,852
Quote:
Croissant Seven said... View Post
Would it surprise you that an extremely wealthy company, whose entire business model is based upon holding everyone involved at gunpoint, would be the leader in killing something designed to help poor people not get held at gunpoint?
Considering that "extremely wealthy company" provided a huge assist in writing Obamacare, this latest news from them is somewhat humorous.
__________________
There's an :auto_smiley: at the end of each of my posts. Use your imagination!

Post of the Day Award - Allan 1/13/2011
Joint Winners of the Zamfir Post of the Day Award!! - 7/9/2010
Likes: (1)
ThudMaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2015, 03:21 PM   #17
J the D
Bozo
 
J the D's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SW FL
Posts: 5,081
Quote:
ec437 said... View Post
What support mechanisms did the ACA remove? The ACA made it possible for me to receive significant financial assistance for my health insurance while in school with no income.
In Florida we have a series of Rural Health Clinics around that were directly funded from the State of Florida's sales tax revenues. Those programs were eliminated under ACA and the clinics received their revenue form the insurance put in place through the exchanges. Going to be much harder to replace that funding now.

I am not sure what the Socialist Republic of Washington does or did.
J the D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2015, 03:22 PM   #18
Croissant Seven
Actually George Soros
 
Croissant Seven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: George Sorosland
Posts: 20,539
Quote:
ThudMaker said... View Post
Considering that "extremely wealthy company" provided a huge assist in writing Obamacare, this latest news from them is somewhat humorous.
The smirk on my face when I wrote the post you quoted was caused by the notion in the post I just quoted.
Likes: (1)
Croissant Seven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2015, 03:23 PM   #19
J the D
Bozo
 
J the D's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SW FL
Posts: 5,081
Quote:
Croissant Seven said... View Post
Please tell us what support mechanism was removed.
See my response to Evan. I do not know what was in place in your state. Florida deals with a huge population of migrant workers and we were providing for them. Now we're not.
J the D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2015, 03:25 PM   #20
Croissant Seven
Actually George Soros
 
Croissant Seven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: George Sorosland
Posts: 20,539
Quote:
J the D said... View Post
In Florida we have a series of Rural Health Clinics around that were directly funded from the State of Florida's sales tax revenues. Those programs were eliminated under ACA and the clinics received their revenue form the insurance put in place through the exchanges. Going to be much harder to replace that funding now.
It could be harder to replace that funding, if folks like you keep voting against the interests of those people. Because I guarantee that you absolutely despised the idea that your tax dollars funded those clinics before you needed a reason to blame something on Obama.
Likes: (1)
Croissant Seven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2015, 03:26 PM   #21
Croissant Seven
Actually George Soros
 
Croissant Seven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: George Sorosland
Posts: 20,539
Quote:
J the D said... View Post
See my response to Evan. I do not know what was in place in your state. Florida deals with a huge population of migrant workers and we were providing for them. Now we're not.
Perfect, maybe they'll die, or go back where they belong, amirite?

Shit, it's a double relief that any filthy fucking Syrians who end up in Florida wont have medical treatment available, either!
Croissant Seven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2015, 03:28 PM   #22
J the D
Bozo
 
J the D's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SW FL
Posts: 5,081
Quote:
Croissant Seven said... View Post
The smirk on my face when I wrote the post you quoted was caused by the notion in the post I just quoted.
Thudmakers comment is accurate. ACA was primarily written by the insurance companies.

The projected mix of participants in the exchanges was dependent upon young people participating in the exchanges providing a healthy population that kept cost of benefits low. Instead, the healthy young people are being signed up on their parents' health insurance which do not flow through the exchanges. This results in the exchange population being much, much older than projected with a corresponding increase in the actual cost of taking care of the exchange members.

So I guess it is your fault.
J the D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2015, 03:30 PM   #23
Jugghaid
Buildiing green economies
 
Jugghaid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: I'm a mile high........
Posts: 35,561
Quote:
ThudMaker said... View Post
Considering that "extremely wealthy company" provided a huge assist in writing Obamacare, this latest news from them is somewhat humorous.
I would have to agree.
Jugghaid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2015, 03:33 PM   #24
J the D
Bozo
 
J the D's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SW FL
Posts: 5,081
Quote:
Croissant Seven said... View Post
Perfect, maybe they'll die, or go back where they belong, amirite?

Shit, it's a double relief that any filthy fucking Syrians who end up in Florida wont have medical treatment available, either!
I serve on the local board. We are trying to figure out how to serve the population. One of the active steps we are taking is participation this weekend with Remote Area Medical (RAM) in the first free medical event they have ever held in Florida. These events have been largely held in Appalachia and typically have more people turn out than they can serve. We expect to serve upwards of 2,000 people in two days. Manatee Rural Health is handing out vouchers to all that aren't served for an absolutely free visit to one of our clinics.

Action instead of bitching. Mrs. the D and I have also contributed money to help fund the event. That's called putting your money where your mouth is.

What are you doing to help?
Likes: (1)
J the D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2015, 03:35 PM   #25
rowka
Emotionally Unavailable
 
rowka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,753
Likes: (8)
rowka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2015, 03:38 PM   #26
Samson
Likebanging your mom
 
Samson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Lost in the fray
Posts: 11,081
Quote:
rowka said... View Post
__________________
Nobody touches Samson on this forum. Nobody.
-brett
That is why Samson fucking rules.
-BottomHeavyKate
Do everything Samson says.
-Also BottomHeavyKate
Samson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2015, 03:40 PM   #27
Brother Mango
Full of Capsaicin
 
Brother Mango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 7,440
Quote:
Seethroughsouls said... View Post
ACA is a bad idea period. It is useless and unnecessary but a good way to keep the teams separate. Poor think it's helping them and rich think they're getting fucked......a win win for the ruling class. Hulk Hogan will let Andre the Giant win this next match and all will be right again.......for one team.
How is it plainly bad? Surely there are winners and losers in everything, but how is ACA patently bad? All I have is anecdotal evidence that I don't pretend represents everyone's experience.

My personal experience is that after ACA was enacted I got a letter from the VA saying "Dear Veteran, you don't have to do anything to avoid penalties or buy insurance. You're already in the VA's medical system." Now I'm able to go to the VA for things that previously required a service-connected disability. I've got co-pays to pay, but I'm in good shape.

My friend Dave said that ACA expanded his coverage to keep him comfortable while he was waiting to die.

Other than that, I only hear from people who think ACA is awful. I don't know if they represent a true disaster, and that me and Dave were the only 2 people to benefit from ACA; or if the complaints are people being people and finding something to complain about.
Brother Mango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2015, 03:41 PM   #28
Croissant Seven
Actually George Soros
 
Croissant Seven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: George Sorosland
Posts: 20,539
Quote:
J the D said... View Post
Action instead of bitching. Mrs. the D and I have also contributed money to help fund the event. That's called putting your money where your mouth is.

What are you doing to help?
I'm staying the fuck out of the way of the righteous folks doing their best to feel like they're better than me, for starters.
Likes: (1)
Croissant Seven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2015, 03:44 PM   #29
J the D
Bozo
 
J the D's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SW FL
Posts: 5,081
Quote:
Croissant Seven said... View Post
I'm staying the fuck out of the way of the righteous folks doing their best to feel like they're better than me, for starters.
I put in my personal time and effort, put my personal funds in and try to help others where I can. If trying to help my fellow man instead of just taking shots at someone else is being righteous I wear that tag proudly.
J the D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2015, 03:45 PM   #30
Jugghaid
Buildiing green economies
 
Jugghaid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: I'm a mile high........
Posts: 35,561
Quote:
J the D said... View Post
Thudmakers comment is accurate. ACA was primarily written by the insurance companies.

The projected mix of participants in the exchanges was dependent upon young people participating in the exchanges providing a healthy population that kept cost of benefits low. Instead, the healthy young people are being signed up on their parents' health insurance which do not flow through the exchanges. This results in the exchange population being much, much older than projected with a corresponding increase in the actual cost of taking care of the exchange members.

So I guess it is your fault.
Additionally, many young people are simply not signing up for the "mandatory" insurance, just as they declined to do so before the ACA. They would rather spend $300 a month or so on ANYTHING other than health insurance that they most likely will not use and take the risk that they don't have a catastrophic incident. They would rather pay the tax penalty.

Quote:
ndividuals: From 2014 (reported in 2015), individuals who did not have insurance would owe $95, or 1 percent of income, whichever is greater. In 2015 it rises to the greater of $325 or 2 percent of income. But the penalty would subsequently rise in 2016, reaching $695, or 2.5 percent of income, whichever is greater. From 2017, the minimum tax penalty per person will rise each year with inflation.
So if I'm a healthy happy 25 year old making $36,000 per year, I can either pay about $3500 a year in premiums or $900 per year in tax penalties come filing time. In fact at that income level, I would have to be able to get insurance at $75 a month for it to cost me less, assuming I don't need to go to the doctor that year. $27 a month if I am low income. I don't see many employer plans or exchange plans at those rates.

How many 25 year-olds do you know that would rather spend a few hundred on insurance rather than a new car payment? That is how they look at it in many cases. And not only the younger demographics. When you count in the high deductibles and copays it makes even less sense for them to do so.

I pay almost $400 a month for private insurance because I am a 50 year old ex-smoker with a family history of emphysema and a family to protect from bankruptcy if I have a serious health issues.

If they really want to get serious about health care reform, then cost reform has to be a big part of it. Costs are out of control. It's disgusting in a country as relatively wealthy as the USA that so many people can not afford health care. Drug companies and big insurance companies have been milkin the public for a long long time.

I am all for universal health care at this point. It just makes sense if you want to control costs (as the big profiteers will have to take a hit) and force everyone to participate. It's the only reasonable solution at this point to have true health care reform in this country from all sides of the equation.
Likes: (2)
Jugghaid is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.