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Old 11-19-2015, 04:46 PM   #31
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How is it plainly bad? Surely there are winners and losers in everything, but how is ACA patently bad? All I have is anecdotal evidence that I don't pretend represents everyone's experience.

My personal experience is that after ACA was enacted I got a letter from the VA saying "Dear Veteran, you don't have to do anything to avoid penalties or buy insurance. You're already in the VA's medical system." Now I'm able to go to the VA for things that previously required a service-connected disability. I've got co-pays to pay, but I'm in good shape.

My friend Dave said that ACA expanded his coverage to keep him comfortable while he was waiting to die.

Other than that, I only hear from people who think ACA is awful. I don't know if they represent a true disaster, and that me and Dave were the only 2 people to benefit from ACA; or if the complaints are people being people and finding something to complain about.
It isn't patently bad. It needs some tweaks. And the "exchanges" need some work.
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Old 11-19-2015, 04:50 PM   #32
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Old 11-19-2015, 04:52 PM   #33
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I happen to be one of the 20-somethings that is opting for the penalty. Why? Because my wife works and makes a decent wage, but opting into insurance for me would mean not being able to afford paying for my school, so, sorry, I'll take school over insurance right now.
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Old 11-19-2015, 04:55 PM   #34
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I happen to be one of the 20-somethings that is opting for the penalty. Why? Because my wife works and makes a decent wage, but opting into insurance for me would mean not being able to afford paying for my school, so, sorry, I'll take school over insurance right now.
I'm opting to pay my student loan payments, rather than buy the insurance. Plus it's too expensive, not a good deal for me at all.

I know, I know, if something happens, blah blah blah. If I can't pay a hospital bill, that's the hospital's problem, I guess. I didn't price this shit.
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Old 11-19-2015, 04:59 PM   #35
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Before ACA, the Bizarre Propane Accident (paramedics to the house, ambulance ride to the ER, 1/2 day at local hospital, 70+ mile medical transport to burn specialist hospital, 10 days in burn center, meds and supplies for another 20 days at home with followup visits) cost me total out-of-pocket: $500

After ACA, Mrs Rowka got 3 stitches on her hand: $3000.

That's all I got.
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Old 11-19-2015, 05:00 PM   #36
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How is it plainly bad? Surely there are winners and losers in everything, but how is ACA patently bad? All I have is anecdotal evidence that I don't pretend represents everyone's experience.

My personal experience is that after ACA was enacted I got a letter from the VA saying "Dear Veteran, you don't have to do anything to avoid penalties or buy insurance. You're already in the VA's medical system." Now I'm able to go to the VA for things that previously required a service-connected disability. I've got co-pays to pay, but I'm in good shape.

My friend Dave said that ACA expanded his coverage to keep him comfortable while he was waiting to die.

Other than that, I only hear from people who think ACA is awful. I don't know if they represent a true disaster, and that me and Dave were the only 2 people to benefit from ACA; or if the complaints are people being people and finding something to complain about.
I can tell you from an employers standpoint it's a disaster. That is why you have seen many employers utilize loopholes such as only hiring part time employees or electing to take the penalty rather than provide company sponsored health insurance. It's way less expensive and then they don't have to lay off 30% of their staff. And I am talking about small business, not Walmart here.

Getting insurance for a small business is ridiculous. When I was running the law firm, every year our premiums went up 15% without fail. We had over a dozen companies quote us. Now, I could have fired the people who worked for me with health problems and got that number down, but how wrong is that? Or we could have paid the fines and saved hundreds of thousands of dollars. Instead we picked up the difference with no additional cost to our employees, but family coverage did increase drastically. I personally know of people who are married with kids paying up to and over $1000 a month for health insurance through their employers. That is a mortgage payment in many parts of this country and to someone making less than $30,000 per year, impossible to pay while taking care of the basics. And their coverage sucks prior to pre-ACA plans. Rowka's example is not at all uncommon.
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Old 11-19-2015, 05:00 PM   #37
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How is it plainly bad? Surely there are winners and losers in everything, but how is ACA patently bad? All I have is anecdotal evidence that I don't pretend represents everyone's experience.

My personal experience is that after ACA was enacted I got a letter from the VA saying "Dear Veteran, you don't have to do anything to avoid penalties or buy insurance. You're already in the VA's medical system." Now I'm able to go to the VA for things that previously required a service-connected disability. I've got co-pays to pay, but I'm in good shape.

My friend Dave said that ACA expanded his coverage to keep him comfortable while he was waiting to die.

Other than that, I only hear from people who think ACA is awful. I don't know if they represent a true disaster, and that me and Dave were the only 2 people to benefit from ACA; or if the complaints are people being people and finding something to complain about.
I assure you that isn't me.

Our out of pocket costs for me and employees doubled, my family deductible tripled from 2k to 6k. I hate it because I believe it to be unconstitutional, 1st and foremost, but I also hate it because our entry level guys don't want it, can't afford it and have to have it, they are also funding all of us sick old people who share it with their young healthy asses. Our PM's make 70-100k per year, an apprentice electrician makes 30k per year, if your weekly contribution goes from $54 to $108 and you only make $460 per week that's huge., a PM can afford an extra 50 bucks a week out of his check, an entry level employee makes 12 bucks an hour.

Furthermore, most 18-30 yo males don't even want medical insurance, now they have to have it.....or else......the ACA is like the mafia, they are burning out the competition and we are supposed to bank on their future benevolence......no thanks. Uncle Sam could break an anvil, the easiest way to completely fuck something up is to get the government involved.
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Old 11-19-2015, 05:03 PM   #38
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an entry level employee makes 12 bucks an hour. :
That's why we need a $15/hr national minimum wage. YOU are part of the problem.
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Old 11-19-2015, 05:05 PM   #39
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It isn't patently bad. It needs some tweaks. And the "exchanges" need some work.
if by "tweaks" you mean completely reconsidered and rewritten, then I agree.

Look, the basic premises were good. Make it affordable, especially for low income families, eliminate pre-existing conditions, and so on. But it was cannibalized by the insurance lobby (who wrote a significant portion of it), made completely convoluted (what 5000 pages or so?) and generally fucked up in a way only Washington DC can fuck something up. I can't believe there are still people (like the current Dem candidates) saying this is working well. It isn't.

The road to hell is paved.......and all that.

Either go to a single payer system or completely privatize it and get out of the way so there can be true interstate competition. But that second option leaves the door open for price fixing among many other potential problems. And anyone who thinks that won' happen is completely naive.
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Old 11-19-2015, 05:05 PM   #40
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That's why we need a $15/hr national minimum wage. YOU are part of the problem.
Great we can have 8 dollar crispy tacos at taco bell now, and the dumb motherfuckers will still fuck my order up
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Old 11-19-2015, 05:09 PM   #41
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Furthermore, most 18-30 yo males don't even want medical insurance
Disagree. 18-30 was the time that I personally needed health insurance the most, and was glad to have it. I guess I was lucky that I was 18-30 when health coverage wasn't astronomically expensive, and employers were happy to include it as a benefit. It was nice to have given the number of injuries I've had, plus a couple of surgeries.

It's the "affordable" tag that I find insulting. Fucking nobody can afford this shit, at least nobody who knows what the fuck the word "deductible" means.
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Old 11-19-2015, 05:11 PM   #42
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Great we can have 8 dollar crispy tacos at taco bell now, and the dumb motherfuckers will still fuck my order up
If Taco Bell employees get an 80% raise, and the price of a taco goes up 1000%, I don't think you can reasonably blame the employee for that.
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Old 11-19-2015, 05:13 PM   #43
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If Taco Bell employees get an 80% raise, and the price of a taco goes up 1000%, I don't think you can reasonably blame the employee for that.
If anyone paid $8 for a taco bell crispy taco, they deserve what they get.
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Old 11-19-2015, 05:17 PM   #44
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If anyone paid $8 for a taco bell crispy taco, they deserve what they get.
For real. Even though I'm certain that the megacorps would price their menu items punitively if the minimum wage was raised, I don't think they would go THAT far.
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Old 11-19-2015, 05:20 PM   #45
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Fucked with the ACA, fucked if it gets axed and goes back to the way it was. Bring on the single payer system.
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Old 11-19-2015, 05:46 PM   #46
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I can tell you from an employers standpoint it's a disaster. That is why you have seen many employers utilize loopholes such as only hiring part time employees or electing to take the penalty rather than provide company sponsored health insurance. It's way less expensive and then they don't have to lay off 30% of their staff. And I am talking about small business, not Walmart here.

Getting insurance for a small business is ridiculous. When I was running the law firm, every year our premiums went up 15% without fail. We had over a dozen companies quote us. Now, I could have fired the people who worked for me with health problems and got that number down, but how wrong is that? Or we could have paid the fines and saved hundreds of thousands of dollars. Instead we picked up the difference with no additional cost to our employees, but family coverage did increase drastically. I personally know of people who are married with kids paying up to and over $1000 a month for health insurance through their employers. That is a mortgage payment in many parts of this country and to someone making less than $30,000 per year, impossible to pay while taking care of the basics. And their coverage sucks prior to pre-ACA plans. Rowka's example is not at all uncommon.
This hasn't been my experience. I personally do pay almost $2k a month for insurance, but as for the company, the rates even dropped.
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Old 11-19-2015, 05:52 PM   #47
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if by "tweaks" you mean completely reconsidered and rewritten, then I agree.

Look, the basic premises were good. Make it affordable, especially for low income families, eliminate pre-existing conditions, and so on. But it was cannibalized by the insurance lobby (who wrote a significant portion of it), made completely convoluted (what 5000 pages or so?) and generally fucked up in a way only Washington DC can fuck something up. I can't believe there are still people (like the current Dem candidates) saying this is working well. It isn't.

The road to hell is paved.......and all that.

Either go to a single payer system or completely privatize it and get out of the way so there can be true interstate competition. But that second option leaves the door open for price fixing among many other potential problems. And anyone who thinks that won' happen is completely naive.
Now that Obamacare has essentially come on line, there isn't the uncertainty overshadowing the economic decisions of quite a few companies. I was against it, but as long as the government doesn't interfere more than it has, it hasn't been all bad. There are many things in Obamacare that don't pertain to "coverage" and actually improve the "care" provided.
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Old 11-19-2015, 05:55 PM   #48
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In Florida we have a series of Rural Health Clinics around that were directly funded from the State of Florida's sales tax revenues. Those programs were eliminated under ACA and the clinics received their revenue form the insurance put in place through the exchanges. Going to be much harder to replace that funding now.

I am not sure what the Socialist Republic of Washington does or did.
I'm not sure about Washington either. I don't live there.
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Old 11-19-2015, 05:57 PM   #49
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This hasn't been my experience. I personally do pay almost $2k a month for insurance, but as for the company, the rates even dropped.
We have seen exponential rate increases while deductibles have also tripled, they also rewrote a lot of the coverage's to exclude "key" things that only apply to people with serious diseases. For example certain heart and cancer drugs are not covered and certain procedures, we also lost mental health as a component and had to add it back in at a substantial cost. Whole thing sucks balls if you ask me, the "free" part comes on the backs of those blue collar workers who, like always throughout history, get the largest fucking. Shimsham, the whole law.
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Old 11-19-2015, 05:58 PM   #50
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This hasn't been my experience. I personally do pay almost $2k a month for insurance, but as for the company, the rates even dropped.
How big of a company?

And 2k per month is absolutely ridiculous.
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Old 11-19-2015, 05:58 PM   #51
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I'm not sure about Washington either. I don't live there.
Isn't Portland in Washington?

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Old 11-19-2015, 06:01 PM   #52
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Isn't Portland in Washington?

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Old 11-19-2015, 06:22 PM   #53
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With my old firm.... We didn't see any differences with the ACA. More coverage for employees actually. I'd be buying insurance on my own now regardless of ACA.
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Old 11-19-2015, 06:28 PM   #54
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With my old firm.... We didn't see any differences with the ACA. More coverage for employees actually. I'd be buying insurance on my own now regardless of ACA.
I have heard others say the same. Generally, from my experience, they are either very large companies or very small.

We were about 150 employees. The changes were drastic and ridiculously expensive.
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Old 11-19-2015, 06:47 PM   #55
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We have seen exponential rate increases while deductibles have also tripled, they also rewrote a lot of the coverage's to exclude "key" things that only apply to people with serious diseases. For example certain heart and cancer drugs are not covered and certain procedures, we also lost mental health as a component and had to add it back in at a substantial cost. Whole thing sucks balls if you ask me, the "free" part comes on the backs of those blue collar workers who, like always throughout history, get the largest fucking. Shimsham, the whole law.
The reason why yours went up drastically is because your industry is made up of a ton of males. Things are evened out now.
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Old 11-19-2015, 06:50 PM   #56
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How big of a company?

And 2k per month is absolutely ridiculous.
My company has anywhere between 50-70 FT workers and I could keep adding more. I love Obama. Business is good.

And no. It isn't ridiculous. We have a couple of preexisting issues that cost an arm and a leg. They lose money on me right now.
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Old 11-19-2015, 06:51 PM   #57
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The passage of the ACA wasn't about the actual law, it was about transitioning health care into a nationally addressed benefit. Perfect enemy of the good and such. The hope is that the details will get sorted over time. We shall see.
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Old 11-19-2015, 07:28 PM   #58
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My company has anywhere between 50-70 FT workers and I could keep adding more. I love Obama. Business is good.

And no. It isn't ridiculous. We have a couple of preexisting issues that cost an arm and a leg. They lose money on me right now.
Preexisting conditions should not be a factor at this point.

And $24k per year before deductibles and copays is ridiculous. It is almost 50% of the median household income in this country.
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Old 11-19-2015, 08:07 PM   #59
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The passage of the ACA wasn't about the actual law, it was about transitioning health care into a nationally addressed benefit. Perfect enemy of the good and such. The hope is that the details will get sorted over time. We shall see.
You will have to untangle the ACA from the gov to ever get back to trying for single payer. It took a super-majority in congress to get it passed, it will take almost that to ever get rid of it.
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Old 11-19-2015, 08:19 PM   #60
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I'm opting to pay my student loan payments, rather than buy the insurance. Plus it's too expensive, not a good deal for me at all.

I know, I know, if something happens, blah blah blah. If I can't pay a hospital bill, that's the hospital's problem, I guess. I didn't price this shit.
Exactly . To be honest, I could get insurance for ~4k a year. But that's 4k a year I don't have. I've dealt with collections for medical before, I know that 30% of total isn't a lowball.
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