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Old 05-16-2017, 10:31 PM   #811
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Thirty-seven percent of Americans are careless.
Sad!
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Old 05-16-2017, 10:31 PM   #812
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Thirty-seven percent of Americans are careless.

Sorry, I just can't let it go.
Yes, you can.
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Old 05-16-2017, 11:05 PM   #813
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I won't!
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Old 05-17-2017, 12:31 PM   #814
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I have 2 inhalers. My preventer is Qvar (beclometasone dipropionate). I get 2 every 50 days and it costs me £8.40. My reliever is Ventolin (salbutamol) which I request whenever I need it. Let time it was issued was 20th February (my preventer is good - I rarely need the reliever). That also costs me £8.40 each time.

If I was getting both monthly, it would be cost effective for me to get a prescription prepayment card. That costs £8.67 a month on direct debit or £104 annually up front. Carl has one as he has 4 different medications he gets each month. He doesn't have to pay anything on top of his direct debit for the prepayment card.
This is the way things *should* work
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Old 05-17-2017, 02:12 PM   #815
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My insurance called me to go over cost saving advice

After talking to me ( I was nice) they apologized because it sounds complicated

Back to being a burden!
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Old 05-29-2017, 03:54 PM   #816
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Old 06-15-2017, 12:24 AM   #817
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Worth reading in its entirety, given the House GOP's all-out effort to hide health care legislation from not just the D's but all voters, including their own constituents:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...=.378562f581d2

I can't quote it all without formatting problems I can't overcome. Just read it.
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Old 06-15-2017, 03:05 PM   #818
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Meh, I'll take the time to copy & paste...

Republicans are privately angry at Trump for accidentally unmasking their big scam

House Republicans are angry with President Trump for blurting out an inconveniently candid view of their health-care bill, Politico reports today. Trump reportedly told a closed-door gathering of GOP senators that the House repeal-and-replace bill is “mean” and called on them to make it “more generous.” This promptly leaked, and a lot of people are noting that Trump undercut House Republicans politically and provided Democrats with ammo for a thousand attack ads.

But I’d like to argue that this moment has broader significance than that. If you place Trump’s private candor in the context of the indefensibly opaque and secretive process that Republicans are using to get this health-care bill through, it reveals in a fresh way just how scandalous their approach to remaking one-sixth of the U.S. economy really has been.

Here’s how Politico characterizes the anger at Trump among House Republicans right now:
Imagine if you’re a House Republican, and voted for the leadership’s health-care bill in May after being told that you were doing the newly elected president a solid. You listened to the White House’s pleading — perhaps you got a phone call from Vice President Mike Pence, Chief of Staff Reince Priebus or even the president himself. The administration was on the Hill nonstop to push their legislation. You explained to your constituents that the late-in-the-game changes made to the bill helped cover more people. You celebrated with him in the Rose Garden after passage.

Now you hear the president has gone behind closed doors and told senators the House bill is “mean” and says it doesn’t do enough to cover people. Wouldn’t that anger you? Well, it’s angering a lot of House Republicans, who believe their president put them at political risk with that comment … If you’re a House Republican, are you going to help the White House next time after the president privately just dumped all over you after you cast a vote for him? A lot of GOP lawmakers are buzzing about it, and many are none too pleased with the president right now.
The multiple reports on Trump’s comments differ slightly in the details, but not in their overall thrust. Sources who spoke to the Associated Press said Trump told GOP senators that the House bill is “mean, mean, mean” and must be made “more generous.” CNN adds that Trump told the lawmakers that the House bill would leave too many people vulnerable and that he wants more money spent on those people. One Republican senator related that Trump “talked about the need to take care of people.”

House Republicans are now angry at this, Politico reports, because they stuck out their necks making the case for a bill that would leave many millions without coverage and gut protections for people with preexisting conditions. They “explained to their constituents” that the last-minute changes to the bill (adding all of $8 billion) would make it less destructive to that latter group. But Trump has now upended all of this, putting them at greater political risk.

But their anger over this is particularly galling, because Republicans themselves do not want their constituents to actually know what is in the bill they are set to pass. And they are taking active, extensive and possibly unprecedented steps to make sure they don’t. Trump merely made this harder for them to get away with.

Let’s not forget that House Republicans deliberately voted on their bill before the Congressional Budget Office produced its final score of it. That analysis concluded that 23 million fewer people would be covered and that the bill’s provision allowing states to waive the ban on jacking up premiums for people with preexisting conditions would lead to soaring costs for many of them, leaving untold numbers without coverage entirely. After lying relentlessly about the bill — claiming that no one would be worse off and that it would strengthen protections for the sick — House Republicans deliberately held a vote before the CBO’s final analysis gave voters a way to evaluate those lies in the light of empirical analysis.

Now Senate Republicans are urgently working to soften the bill, because a number of moderates can’t be seen embracing something that cruel. But, if anything, they are going further than their House counterparts to forestall any kind of serious public awareness of what they are doing. Two GOP aides recently told Axios that there are no plans to publicly release the Senate version well in advance of the vote, because, as one of them put it, “we aren’t stupid.” There have been no public hearings. Even some Senate Republicans have expressed befuddlement about what’s in the bill that they will be voting on.

As Brian Beutler and Jonathan Chait have noted, avoiding public scrutiny and accountability is the whole legislative strategy — the process itself is a scandal, given how many millions of people, and how large a swath of the economy, it will impact. And as University of Michigan law professor Nicholas Bagley argues, that could have untold other consequences: The lack of scrutiny and debate could lead to major, destructive flaws in the bill itself and, more broadly, could further erode basic norms of legislative transparency.

We do know a few things about the Senate bill. It will likely phase out the Medicaid expansion more slowly, to allow moderates to argue that they have “softened” the House version, which cuts $800 billion in health-care spending on poor people while delivering to the rich an enormous tax cut. It may also nix the provision deregulating protections for preexisting conditions, but, by keeping the one that allows for skimpier health plans, it could end up nonetheless harming untold numbers of sick people who would need previously covered essential services.

Trump’s admission that the House bill is “mean” should not be taken seriously as an actual statement of values, because he himself has championed it in public, and thus simply means the Senate version needs to provide a way to pretend the final product is far more “generous” than it will surely end up being, which is a lot like the House bill. Indeed, the GOP’s extraordinary lack of transparency is itself a concession that Republicans know how “mean” it will be. Republicans are angry that Trump admitted, in a way guaranteed to leak, that he knows it will hurt huge numbers of people, when they had taken such great pains to obscure that. Trump’s real transgression was to provide the public with a glimpse of a reality that they themselves have gone to extraordinary lengths to keep hidden.
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Old 06-15-2017, 04:19 PM   #819
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Thanks. I was trying to keep the embedded links. But one paragraph simply would not paste correctly and I had to run to work.
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Old 06-15-2017, 05:10 PM   #820
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Republicans are privately angry at Trump for accidentally unmasking their big scam

House Republicans are angry with President Trump for blurting out an inconveniently candid view of their health-care bill, Politico reports today. Trump reportedly told a closed-door gathering of GOP senators that the House repeal-and-replace bill is “mean” and called on them to make it “more generous.” This promptly leaked, and a lot of people are noting that Trump undercut House Republicans politically and provided Democrats with ammo for a thousand attack ads.

But I’d like to argue that this moment has broader significance than that. If you place Trump’s private candor in the context of the indefensibly opaque and secretive process that Republicans are using to get this health-care bill through, it reveals in a fresh way just how scandalous their approach to remaking one-sixth of the U.S. economy really has been.

Here’s how Politico characterizes the anger at Trump among House Republicans right now:
Imagine if you’re a House Republican, and voted for the leadership’s health-care bill in May after being told that you were doing the newly elected president a solid. You listened to the White House’s pleading — perhaps you got a phone call from Vice President Mike Pence, Chief of Staff Reince Priebus or even the president himself. The administration was on the Hill nonstop to push their legislation. You explained to your constituents that the late-in-the-game changes made to the bill helped cover more people. You celebrated with him in the Rose Garden after passage.

Now you hear the president has gone behind closed doors and told senators the House bill is “mean” and says it doesn’t do enough to cover people. Wouldn’t that anger you? Well, it’s angering a lot of House Republicans, who believe their president put them at political risk with that comment … If you’re a House Republican, are you going to help the White House next time after the president privately just dumped all over you after you cast a vote for him? A lot of GOP lawmakers are buzzing about it, and many are none too pleased with the president right now.
The multiple reports on Trump’s comments differ slightly in the details, but not in their overall thrust. Sources who spoke to the Associated Press said Trump told GOP senators that the House bill is “mean, mean, mean” and must be made “more generous.” CNN adds that Trump told the lawmakers that the House bill would leave too many people vulnerable and that he wants more money spent on those people. One Republican senator related that Trump “talked about the need to take care of people.”

House Republicans are now angry at this, Politico reports, because they stuck out their necks making the case for a bill that would leave many millions without coverage and gut protections for people with preexisting conditions. They “explained to their constituents” that the last-minute changes to the bill (adding all of $8 billion) would make it less destructive to that latter group. But Trump has now upended all of this, putting them at greater political risk.

But their anger over this is particularly galling, because Republicans themselves do not want their constituents to actually know what is in the bill they are set to pass. And they are taking active, extensive and possibly unprecedented steps to make sure they don’t. Trump merely made this harder for them to get away with.

Let’s not forget that House Republicans deliberately voted on their bill before the Congressional Budget Office produced its final score of it. That analysis concluded that 23 million fewer people would be covered and that the bill’s provision allowing states to waive the ban on jacking up premiums for people with preexisting conditions would lead to soaring costs for many of them, leaving untold numbers without coverage entirely. After lying relentlessly about the bill — claiming that no one would be worse off and that it would strengthen protections for the sick — House Republicans deliberately held a vote before the CBO’s final analysis gave voters a way to evaluate those lies in the light of empirical analysis.

Now Senate Republicans are urgently working to soften the bill, because a number of moderates can’t be seen embracing something that cruel. But, if anything, they are going further than their House counterparts to forestall any kind of serious public awareness of what they are doing. Two GOP aides recently told Axios that there are no plans to publicly release the Senate version well in advance of the vote, because, as one of them put it, “we aren’t stupid.” There have been no public hearings. Even some Senate Republicans have expressed befuddlement about what’s in the bill that they will be voting on.

As Brian Beutler and Jonathan Chait have noted, avoiding public scrutiny and accountability is the whole legislative strategy — the process itself is a scandal, given how many millions of people, and how large a swath of the economy, it will impact. And as University of Michigan law professor Nicholas Bagley argues, that could have untold other consequences: The lack of scrutiny and debate could lead to major, destructive flaws in the bill itself and, more broadly, could further erode basic norms of legislative transparency.

We do know a few things about the Senate bill. It will likely phase out the Medicaid expansion more slowly, to allow moderates to argue that they have “softened” the House version, which cuts $800 billion in health-care spending on poor people while delivering to the rich an enormous tax cut. It may also nix the provision deregulating protections for preexisting conditions, but, by keeping the one that allows for skimpier health plans, it could end up nonetheless harming untold numbers of sick people who would need previously covered essential services.

Trump’s admission that the House bill is “mean” should not be taken seriously as an actual statement of values, because he himself has championed it in public, and thus simply means the Senate version needs to provide a way to pretend the final product is far more “generous” than it will surely end up being, which is a lot like the House bill. Indeed, the GOP’s extraordinary lack of transparency is itself a concession that Republicans know how “mean” it will be. Republicans are angry that Trump admitted, in a way guaranteed to leak, that he knows it will hurt huge numbers of people, when they had taken such great pains to obscure that. Trump’s real transgression was to provide the public with a glimpse of a reality that they themselves have gone to extraordinary lengths to keep hidden.
To sum up, President Donald Trump is looking out for the people.



....flees forum
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Old 06-15-2017, 05:16 PM   #821
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To sum up, President Donald Trump is looking out for the people.



....flees forum
Trump needs to push the envelope here, if he really wants to be a successful President. The Republicans are clueless on this issue. They keep discussing affordable insurance, which isn't affordable health care. Affordable insurance could carry a deductible that isn't affordable. It looks to me that they want to give Congress away in 2 years, although the Senate will be hard to take back.
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Old 06-15-2017, 05:50 PM   #822
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Just some thoughts here, no rants or solutions or anything...

I'm involved in a committee that negotiates a self-funded healthplan for a large employer. Looking at the books is very interesting, and it's also telling how just a few participants can have an adverse effect on the overall health of the plan.

For example, one individual is receiving medication that costs the plan $900,000 in claims. Another member - one who is actually on the committee and brought it up - took a cancer drug that was $11,000 per month. We also had one insurance claim from a car accident that went the full $1.5 million before the stop-loss kicked in, and a couple other claims in the low six figures.

I don't know what to say, really. Yes, everyone else shoulders the weight of the high claims by these relatively few folks, since it affects premiums and plan rates. If the folks with those claims didn't have insurance, they'd be bankrupt, even sicker, or dead (or their prematurely born babies would be dead)... or maybe all of the above. It sure seems like some entity is making bank with a drug regimen that costs $900k per year or more.
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Old 06-15-2017, 05:56 PM   #823
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To sum up, President Donald Trump is looking out for the people.



....flees forum
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Old 06-15-2017, 06:25 PM   #824
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It sure seems like some entity is making bank with a drug regimen that costs $900k per year or more.
Same entities that pay good money to politicians to frame affordable health insurance as affordable health care.
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Old 06-15-2017, 09:08 PM   #825
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This is why the ACA is the most misnamed law in existence. It did some good things but it certainly didn't do a damn thing to make healthcare any more affordable.
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Old 06-15-2017, 09:12 PM   #826
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This is why the ACA is the most misnamed law in existence. It did some good things but it certainly didn't do a damn thing to make healthcare any more affordable.
It did for the lower income brackets.

In a month, I'll be switching to a plan from the California Marketplace - a $0 deductible, Gold PPO is going to cost me a bit more than half what an HMO cost my employer. My health care is going to get significantly less expensive.
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Old 06-15-2017, 09:36 PM   #827
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It did for the lower income brackets.

In a month, I'll be switching to a plan from the California Marketplace - a $0 deductible, Gold PPO is going to cost me a bit more than half what an HMO cost my employer. My health care is going to get significantly less expensive.
I assume the name would apply to all those covered by it, not just the lower income brackets. Maybe they should have called it the Shift The Burden Care Act?

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Old 06-15-2017, 09:40 PM   #828
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Isn't that how insurance works?
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Old 06-15-2017, 09:49 PM   #829
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I assume the name would apply to all those covered by it, not just the lower income brackets.
The explicit mechanism for making things affordable is "subsidies for lower incomes", so...

If someone had enough money for higher rates, then they were already able to afford them...which is, you know, the definition of "affordable."

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Maybe they should have called it the Shift The Burden Care Act?
Probably should have made that argument before you hit the wrong side of 40 and started being a net consumer of health care.
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Old 06-15-2017, 09:49 PM   #830
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Isn't that how insurance works?
No, it isn't.
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Old 06-16-2017, 07:09 AM   #831
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The explicit mechanism for making things affordable is "subsidies for lower incomes", so...

If someone had enough money for higher rates, then they were already able to afford them...which is, you know, the definition of "affordable."


Probably should have made that argument before you hit the wrong side of 40 and started being a net consumer of health care.

I think you missed my
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Old 06-16-2017, 12:14 PM   #832
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I think you missed my
I saw it - I just didn't read it as "this is totally not serious in any way" due to the other, non-joking statements about "wealth re-distribution" you've made in conversations this week.
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Old 06-16-2017, 12:17 PM   #833
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I saw it - I just didn't read it as "this is totally not serious in any way" due to the other, non-joking statements about "wealth re-distribution" you've made in conversations this week.
OK then.





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Old 06-18-2017, 08:00 AM   #834
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...
Nevada’s Republican governor vetoed a bill late Friday that would have created the nation’s first “Medicaid for all” insurance offering, a plan that drew widespread attention as states brace for changes in the federal Affordable Care Act.

The bill would have allowed any state resident to buy into Medicaid, the federal-state program for people with low incomes or disabilities. The idea, which its Democratic sponsor said would have created a guaranteed health coverage option that was affordable, has drawn the interest of other liberal-leaning states as congress works to repeal major portions of the Affordable Care Act, including the law’s Medicaid expansion.
...
https://www.wsj.com/articles/nevadas...lan-1497701687
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:08 AM   #835
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I read all of lug's posts as "this is totally not serious in any way". Am I not supposed to be doing that then?
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:16 AM   #836
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I read all of lug's posts as "this is totally not serious in any way". Am I not supposed to be doing that then?
You are doing it correctly. It gets really old.
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Old 06-18-2017, 10:07 AM   #837
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Good luck, Lug. Your outstanding, long-time participation as a forumite is being minimized.
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Old 06-18-2017, 08:02 PM   #838
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You are doing it correctly. It gets really old.
Such a wet blanket.
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Old 06-19-2017, 07:00 AM   #839
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Good luck, Lug. Your outstanding, long-time participation as a forumite is being minimized.
.......relegated to GroupThink3, curse the luck!





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Old 06-19-2017, 07:32 AM   #840
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.......relegated to GroupThink3, curse the luck!





If it's any consolation, I was told I hold extremist views on a different site, because I think Bannon is not a nice person for stirring up the alt right during the election.
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