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Old 11-20-2015, 07:32 PM   #121
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I'd be happy to move to Germany and test theirs out.

Fuck I loved Germany.
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Old 11-20-2015, 07:47 PM   #122
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Germany's I do have experience of, although not recent experience. I found the care very good. Some tests and the medication needed (a week course of tablets) cost me a little over 60DM in 1999. I don't know if that was because I was a visitor or if anyone would have had to pay that. Travel insurance covered it.
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Old 11-20-2015, 07:48 PM   #123
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goddammit freak don't you ruin this opportunity for me!!
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Old 11-20-2015, 07:50 PM   #124
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Old 11-20-2015, 07:51 PM   #125
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goddammit bill.
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Old 11-20-2015, 07:55 PM   #126
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I was having network issues at work today and I couldn't get imgur to load. I literally spent hours chuckling to myself about that response before I finally posted it.
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Old 11-20-2015, 08:50 PM   #127
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prob wasn't your fault, imgur is a pos that is down like 10% of the time. I was having issues posting my screenshots in the cat app thread earlier as well.
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Old 11-20-2015, 11:22 PM   #128
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Ya. The outcomes certainly don't justify it, either.



Something that is pretty funny: the USA's healthcare system is so messed up that you guys spend, as a proportion of your economy, about as much on public healthcare as we do.

So, congratulations. You guys take it in the ass on your taxes and then again on insurance premiums / lost income that employers are paying insurance companies rather than you.

Exactly why I fill out poor paperwork without hesitation. I want my tax deduction thank you! Fucking ridiculous.
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Old 11-21-2015, 02:22 AM   #129
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There is more than money to the equation.
Quality of personal life and society as a whole improves if you can to preventive health care. Whatever bad disease you have, you won't lose your job of house on it.
The French system is too spendy, often inefficient but as a whole it works, people can get healed and it still costs less than the US system.

There is no doubt that USA have the best surgeons, the best medications and the best technology. There is no logical reason for you guys to die earlier than similarly developed countries.
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Old 11-21-2015, 03:15 AM   #130
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There is more than money to the equation.
Quality of personal life and society as a whole improves if you can to preventive health care. Whatever bad disease you have, you won't lose your job of house on it.
The French system is too spendy, often inefficient but as a whole it works, people can get healed and it still costs less than the US system.

There is no doubt that USA have the best surgeons, the best medications and the best technology. There is no logical reason for you guys to die earlier than similarly developed countries.
We mainly die earlier because we're a bunch of fat asses.

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Old 11-21-2015, 06:39 AM   #131
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Indeed. Stop eating so much. We on this side of the Atlantic are trying to catch up, can't you see this?

I imagine part of the issue with the USA is the huge inequality in terms of access to healthcare. Countries with single payer, socialised medicine and mandatory private care, aka everywhere else in the developed world, have a government regulated floor for quality of care across a variety of situations and in most cases people can pay more for privately funded care. That floor seems to be way lower in the USA, and absent in many situations.

Healthcare is a natural candidate for oligopoly. People can choose not to subscribe to premium cable. They can't choose not to get sick. Insurers know they have captive audiences and can set prices high due to their product simply not being discretionary. If people can pay they pretty much will pay, as the alternative is in some cases being worm food or a nice, balmy 1600 degrees for 2.5 hours. Not quite the same as not being able to watch Last Week Tonight. Although that show is pretty good.

Single payer with insurance for those who want to pay extra for better would, perhaps, be a better way. I can take health insurance from my employer if I choose, to top up my NHS care, it's far from uncommon. I suspect making insurance entirely optional would pretty rapidly show just how much profit there was in the premiums you guys were paying, as they had to start competing in a genuinely free marketplace rather than being able to shakedown their customers on a 'pay us or die' basis.
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Old 11-21-2015, 07:55 AM   #132
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Single payer with insurance for those who want to pay extra for better would, perhaps, be a better way. I can take health insurance from my employer if I choose, to top up my NHS care, it's far from uncommon.
Just going to take issue with your use of the word 'better' when saying you can pay more for better. I wouldn't have got 'better' care if I'd gone private - the healthcare professionals would have been the same people. I may have got care in a better decorated hospital... For some medical issues, going private may get you quicker care as well. But it's not inherently 'better'.
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Old 11-21-2015, 08:17 AM   #133
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...People can choose not to subscribe to premium cable. They can't choose not to get sick.
This is exactly why I see healthcare as a basic human right. TBH there's a really good chance with single payer I'd be paying less than I am now even after the tax increase.

Let me share a sad story. This is currently going on in the wiz household -

Spousal unit has a failed 20-year old gastric bypass (vertical banded gastroplasty) that's leaking and needs most of her stomach removed. Leaking stomach acid has caused a hiatal hernia and what's called Barrett's esophagus, which is pretty nasty and can turn into esophageal cancer.

Blue Cross won't pay for the gastric bypass repair because gastric bypass and she has to have six months of weight loss counseling and we don't have six months. University of Michigan said the surgery was high risk and refused to do it at all.

Found a doctor in Chicago (200 miles away) who would do esophagus and hernia repair and not say anything about fixing the gastric bypass; the down side is he's not affiliated with *any* insurance company and his fee for the surgery is somewhere between $16k and $20k depending on the results of next week's upper GI test.

I borrowed $20k at credit card rates and opened an $8k Care Credit account just in case. We've only got one shot at the financials, so wanted to make sure we were covered. There isn't enough equity in my house to pay for surgery that way.

The hell of it is Blue Cross will reimburse all but about $2500 of this (max out of pocket for a single person is $4k and we've already put in about $1500 of that) but I had to come up with $20k up front to get the surgery scheduled. This is kinda requiring me to retire from my old DoD job three years earlier than expected so I can use the pension to pay off part of the loan. I'm gonna take a 15% permanent hit on my pension as they penalize you 5% for every year you are under 62.

In the end everything will work fine, my pension from DoD will take a permanent 15% hit and once the insurance company reimburses I should get everything back but about $2500 plus hotel, gas to Chicago and meals.

I am grateful that my credit is good enough to borrow $20k on just a signature, but what the fuck would somebody do if they weren't in that position?

edit: And the reason this became an emergency is that my employer just switched us from Blue Cross to United Healthcare starting the first of the year. United Healthcare is the Walmart of insurance companies. Had to get surgery done while we still had reasonably good coverage, if that's what you can call it
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Old 11-21-2015, 09:17 AM   #134
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This is exactly why I see healthcare as a basic human right. TBH there's a really good chance with single payer I'd be paying less than I am now even after the tax increase.

Let me share a sad story. This is currently going on in the wiz household -

Spousal unit has a failed 20-year old gastric bypass (vertical banded gastroplasty) that's leaking and needs most of her stomach removed. Leaking stomach acid has caused a hiatal hernia and what's called Barrett's esophagus, which is pretty nasty and can turn into esophageal cancer.

Blue Cross won't pay for the gastric bypass repair because gastric bypass and she has to have six months of weight loss counseling and we don't have six months. University of Michigan said the surgery was high risk and refused to do it at all.

Found a doctor in Chicago (200 miles away) who would do esophagus and hernia repair and not say anything about fixing the gastric bypass; the down side is he's not affiliated with *any* insurance company and his fee for the surgery is somewhere between $16k and $20k depending on the results of next week's upper GI test.

I borrowed $20k at credit card rates and opened an $8k Care Credit account just in case. We've only got one shot at the financials, so wanted to make sure we were covered. There isn't enough equity in my house to pay for surgery that way.

The hell of it is Blue Cross will reimburse all but about $2500 of this (max out of pocket for a single person is $4k and we've already put in about $1500 of that) but I had to come up with $20k up front to get the surgery scheduled. This is kinda requiring me to retire from my old DoD job three years earlier than expected so I can use the pension to pay off part of the loan. I'm gonna take a 15% permanent hit on my pension as they penalize you 5% for every year you are under 62.

In the end everything will work fine, my pension from DoD will take a permanent 15% hit and once the insurance company reimburses I should get everything back but about $2500 plus hotel, gas to Chicago and meals.

I am grateful that my credit is good enough to borrow $20k on just a signature, but what the fuck would somebody do if they weren't in that position?

edit: And the reason this became an emergency is that my employer just switched us from Blue Cross to United Healthcare starting the first of the year. United Healthcare is the Walmart of insurance companies. Had to get surgery done while we still had reasonably good coverage, if that's what you can call it
Allen, I had a friend with a similar complication. If you would like a name let me know. It was a hard recovery for her. I hope all goes well!
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Old 11-21-2015, 09:27 AM   #135
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Best wishes for a full and speedy recovery to your wife, Allan.
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Old 11-21-2015, 09:54 AM   #136
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This is exactly why I see healthcare as a basic human right. TBH there's a really good chance with single payer I'd be paying less than I am now even after the tax increase.

Let me share a sad story. This is currently going on in the wiz household -

Spousal unit has a failed 20-year old gastric bypass (vertical banded gastroplasty) that's leaking and needs most of her stomach removed. Leaking stomach acid has caused a hiatal hernia and what's called Barrett's esophagus, which is pretty nasty and can turn into esophageal cancer.

Blue Cross won't pay for the gastric bypass repair because gastric bypass and she has to have six months of weight loss counseling and we don't have six months. University of Michigan said the surgery was high risk and refused to do it at all.

Found a doctor in Chicago (200 miles away) who would do esophagus and hernia repair and not say anything about fixing the gastric bypass; the down side is he's not affiliated with *any* insurance company and his fee for the surgery is somewhere between $16k and $20k depending on the results of next week's upper GI test.

I borrowed $20k at credit card rates and opened an $8k Care Credit account just in case. We've only got one shot at the financials, so wanted to make sure we were covered. There isn't enough equity in my house to pay for surgery that way.

The hell of it is Blue Cross will reimburse all but about $2500 of this (max out of pocket for a single person is $4k and we've already put in about $1500 of that) but I had to come up with $20k up front to get the surgery scheduled. This is kinda requiring me to retire from my old DoD job three years earlier than expected so I can use the pension to pay off part of the loan. I'm gonna take a 15% permanent hit on my pension as they penalize you 5% for every year you are under 62.

In the end everything will work fine, my pension from DoD will take a permanent 15% hit and once the insurance company reimburses I should get everything back but about $2500 plus hotel, gas to Chicago and meals.

I am grateful that my credit is good enough to borrow $20k on just a signature, but what the fuck would somebody do if they weren't in that position?

edit: And the reason this became an emergency is that my employer just switched us from Blue Cross to United Healthcare starting the first of the year. United Healthcare is the Walmart of insurance companies. Had to get surgery done while we still had reasonably good coverage, if that's what you can call it
This situation is far from uncommon in America, and it makes me want to fucking scream.

It also scares the fuck out of me. If I get sick, with or without insurance, it will absolutely ruin my life.
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Old 11-21-2015, 09:58 AM   #137
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shit man I worry about it and I have insurance.
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Old 11-21-2015, 09:59 AM   #138
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shit man I worry about it and I have insurance.
We should protest.

Oh wait. They don't care what we think. Or if we die. Or end up homeless.
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Old 11-21-2015, 10:11 AM   #139
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This is exactly why I see healthcare as a basic human right.
Couldn't agree more, allan.
I'm so sorry to read about these struggles you and your wife have to endure because of this crap.
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Old 11-21-2015, 10:30 AM   #140
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Allen, I had a friend with a similar complication. If you would like a name let me know. It was a hard recovery for her. I hope all goes well!
Thanks, piglet - we're kinda committed at this point and besides, Chicago is closer to me than you guys are

Thanks again -
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Old 11-21-2015, 10:32 AM   #141
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This conversation pushed me over the limit. I just instituted the best health insurance plan in the IL market for my employees and I'm paying for every dollar of it for each of them.
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Old 11-21-2015, 10:33 AM   #142
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Old 11-21-2015, 10:43 AM   #143
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This conversation pushed me over the limit. I just instituted the best health insurance plan in the IL market for my employees and I'm paying for every dollar of it for each of them.
Good job! Even before Obamacare, we have always tried to provide better insurance than other companies in our industry were providing.
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Old 11-21-2015, 10:45 AM   #144
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In all seriousness I do hope that the US ends up with a single-payer system. Mostly for altruistic reasons, but also partly because, the way things are going, I am genuinely starting to worry that the meatfuckers we've currently got in government over here are looking with starry eyes at the system in the US, rubbing themselves raw at the thought of the profits that are involved and thinking to themselves "Yes, that's the way things should be here, too..."
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Old 11-21-2015, 10:48 AM   #145
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This conversation pushed me over the limit. I just instituted the best health insurance plan in the IL market for my employees and I'm paying for every dollar of it for each of them.
Worst. CEO. Ever.

Your shareholders are going to run you out on a pike.
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Old 11-21-2015, 10:48 AM   #146
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This situation is far from uncommon in America, and it makes me want to fucking scream.

It also scares the fuck out of me. If I get sick, with or without insurance, it will absolutely ruin my life.
After the initial panic attacks it's not really that bad if your credit's good, C7; got the $20k from prosper.com which is actually kinda interesting and a little expensive (16.1%). They're a loan broker which is kind of an interesting business and I may invest some coins with them when we get past this.

Loan has been funded and approved and should hit the account in the next business day or two. Doc and loan company both have great reviews so that part's easy.

They charged $1k to fund the loan and investor gets about half of the interest I pay. I heard they were paying about 9% but I didn't dig too deep as I really wasn't ready to give them any money. The $1k comes out of loan proceeds so nothing out of pocket. They asked me for ssn, dob, employment verification phone number and a scan of a voided check.

Plan is to keep a couple k of the cash to make loan payments until my retirement gets processed (currently takes about 110 days) and use Care Credit to fill any gaps but rate for that money is higher than the cash we're getting from prosper.

The only reason I'm regurgitating all of this is that there are ways to get shit done as long as your credit's reasonable. I mentioned panic attacks earlier and I was only half kidding - so if the info above helps anyone else, bonus.

cheers -
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Old 11-21-2015, 10:49 AM   #147
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Worst. CEO. Ever.

Your shareholders are going to run you out on a pike.
That's why I have one shareholder, me. Benevolent dictatorship for the win.
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Old 11-21-2015, 10:50 AM   #148
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Old 11-21-2015, 10:57 AM   #149
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After the initial panic attacks it's not really that bad if your credit's good, C7
I applied for $1000 in Care Credit a couple years ago, to get a crown on my tooth. I was declined.

My credit is doing a little better now, good enough to get a sub-8% rate on a car loan, but I would still be declined for a $20,000 signature loan. Which I would promptly default on if I got it, anyways, because monthly payments.

My case is not unique. Hell, I'm probably better off than a good majority of the uninsured, in that my low salary is coupled with relatively low cost of living. Even so, the $240/mo for insurance premium would force me to make a choice between having a car to get to work, defaulting on my student loans, or having super high-deductible health insurance I couldn't afford to use.
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Old 11-21-2015, 11:02 AM   #150
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This conversation pushed me over the limit. I just instituted the best health insurance plan in the IL market for my employees and I'm paying for every dollar of it for each of them.
Bless you, Patrick.
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